Susie An: As you've probably heard, Kroger which owns Mariano's, says it will pay nearly $25 billion to buy Albertsons, which owns Jewel-Osco. So, if you're a Jewel or Mariano shopper, you may be wondering what happens next? Joining us now are two Chicago food writers. Ashok Selvam is the editor of Eater Chicago, and Brianna Wellen is associate editor at the Take Out. Welcome to you both. And we want to hear from you. What do you make of the Jewel Marianos news? Also, what grocery store do you shop at? If it’s Jewel, Mariano’s, Aldi, Pete’s, Tony’s or another place I haven’t mentioned, call us NOW at 866-915-WBEZ. That’s 866-915-9239. So, Ashok, first of all, give us the basics of this deal.

Ashok Selvam: Well, you know, the pandemic has really transformed the landscape of the grocery store shoppings for customers. So you basically have, you know, competitors like Amazon and Whole Foods. You have online competition. And then, you have the smaller cornerstone stores that like... You know, they did really well. No one wants to wait in a line. So, you know the bedrock, Jewel-Osco, or "the Jewels" as it's commonly known. Uh, you know, they were struggling. You know, they had a couple of remodels here and there to draw customers, but they had a competitor in Mariano's, and its parent company Kroger, and they decided to, you know, you know, find a... Find a kind of a partnership, if you will, not a merger. But Mariano's Kroger and decided to take over Jewel. And we don't know what exactly that's gonna look out in the coming months, coming years. It still needs governmental approvals. But uh, you know... That's going to make a 5,000 store chain across the country and that's a lot of volume. That's a lot of purchasing power.

Susie An: I mean that's big, but how big would this new entity be compared to... let's say a Walmart or an Amazon?

Ashok Selvam: It would be the number one grocery chain in America just right now. Walmart is number one and it was slightly edged at Walmart.

Susie An: Yeah. Well, so both Jewel and Mariano's are known for their in store experience. Um, neither is on the cutting edge of technology. I wonder if this could change with this deal. Do you think there's something on the horizon there?

Ashok Selvam: Well, if you shop the other Kroger's... You know, my in laws are in Michigan and I've shopped at Kroger. No, this is probably not. You know, this is about capturing as many customers as possible. And to make sure the companies survive together. And, you know, for folks that... You know, want brilliant apps that you online order. Uh, that's probably not the future. Who knows? Maybe they'll find a company to jump in on that. I mean, you see, uh... Companies that are expanding Chicago right now, like Dom's Kitchen and Market, you don't see a big technology expansion there – albeit they only have one store right now in Lincoln Park, and they're opening an old town, and another one's coming in the West Loop. But it seems like the pandemic has just brought us back to basics. You know, you just want that standard. You don't want the bells and whistles of a piano bar as we've talked about. Or you know, you don't want to walk around with a glass of wine. You want to get your stuff and get out and get on with your life.

Susie An: Yeah, well Brianna... This was the talk of the town over the weekend. A lot of people are wondering what impact this will have. What do you make of this deal?

Brianna Wellen: I think it is what I just said. This is going to cater to people who just want to go get all their things and leave. So it is taking away from the sort of specialty items that a whole other group of people might be looking for at a Mariano's or a Jewel. Um, I always think of the Mariano's olive bar. What will come of that? I hope it stays.

Susie An: We also want to hear from you listeners. Give us a call. Tell us what you think about this possible grocery merger, or takeover–as our show calls it. Give us a call at 866-915-WBEZ. That's 866-915-9239. Um, and since we're asking listeners, you know, we've got to ask you both. Where do you do your grocery shopping? 

Ashok Selvam: Well, you know it's hard to plan out the perfect day, but during the pandemic, I just saw those long lines and with the family I didn't want to part of that. So, I tend to bring a lot of my business to smaller shops. I mean, you have specialty shops like for butchers. Like I really, uh love Dirk's Fish and Gourmet on Clybourn. And they redid their whole space. They took over the space next to them and now they have prepared foods and you could have asian carp. Uh, however you would imagine. So if I want like Sundays are a big deal for our family. So we are scouring recipe books and we want to make sure we have all the necessary ingredients. So it really depends on what we feel like eating. Sometimes you know, head over to Metro spice mark for some south asian grocers. You know, you can't you have to make sure the turmeric is uh you know it's fresh, right? Uh and uh... We'll go to Dirk. We'll go to Local Foods because I really love their butcher counter. Uh, it really depends... uh I want to say, and I'm blanking on it. But I believe it's fresh farms on Western Avenue over in Bucktown. Uh, they are a great shop and they have all kinds of stuff that you know, it makes me happy. They have like bread from Publican quality bread. I owe pastry is over there. So you get a lot of good selections. So the short answer is, it just depends on our mood. Everywhere, and I love going to different neighborhoods to explore that as well.

Susie An: What about you?

Brianna Wellen: Yeah, I always grew up with Jewel, so there's comfort to me. And going to Jewel and that I very much feel for people who are nervous about this deal that Jewel will change. Um, but I do also enjoy the grocery store crawl as we were talking about. Um, I love going to Devon Market. It's a fun one just to walk through and see what things that I haven't tried before. Um I also think Harvest Time is a great local market over in Lincoln square. So Jewel for the basics and as a... I just love going around to different local markets to see what else is there.

Susie An: Yeah, I mean you know, I, I feel like... Um I feel sort of ashamed mentioning where I shop. Um but I... I'm like a maybe two or three store person, where I need to hit up the Costco and then go to Jewel – maybe Mariano's, go to a specialty shop like Jumbo over on Kimball. Um and yeah, I mean I... I feel like this is probably going to change for a lot of people. And you know, in Chicago we have some areas where there is a Mariano's and a Jewel right next to each other – if not close by. Um Brianna, what do you think this could mean? What do you think could happen there in those scenarios?

Brianna Wellen: I just I keep having flashbacks to when all the Dominic's turned into Mariano's. And I feel like yeah, there are so many areas where you can be equidistant between a Jewel and a Mariano's. I don't know if those are going to one of them will just disappear entirely. If there will be a takeover of the Kroger brand since Kroger is as I said the one that is buying, and sort of the leader in this deal. So, I'm worried for Jewel.

Ashok Selvam: If Jewel falls, what does it mean for the rest of us? Right? And it... And it's kind of sad as Brianna puts it. Like, you see these redundancies right next to you on a lot of North Side neighborhoods. And you know, you have underserved areas on the Western South Sides. They don't have a grocery store. You know, a lot of these residents have to take CTA. And you know, transportation is so important. So you can, you know carry and you can pack these groceries. You know, this takeover I don't see it as good news for those areas.

Susie An: Yeah for sure. Well, we are taking your calls give us a call now at 866-915-WBEZ. That's 866-915-9239. We've got Bruce from Chicago. Hey Bruce.

Caller: Yeah. How you doing?

Susie An: Good. What are your thoughts here?

Caller: My thoughts are, I used to work for Central Grocers, which was central, a food supplier. Uh, Tony's Treasure Island, all the mom and pop shops and at one time reacquired uh, certified grocers. And then that we acquired airborne grocers and then we went bankrupt, which was on a record profit here, which another company basically took over all of our stores was associated grocers. Lost all the mom and pop shops on the, on the west side, The south side, they closed because they couldn't afford to start up with a new thing. Yeah. If this happens, what's going to happen to all the Jewel employees... not necessarily the stores, but the warehouse and the drivers, they're all going to lose their union jobs. Yeah, they're not... They're not going to pay these people whatever they're making for our... With their benefits.

Susie An: Yeah, that's definitely a concern. Thanks for that Bruce. We've got Virginia from Rogers Park. Hey Virginia.

Caller: Hi there. Um, I just want to reiterate what was already said and that is this is a first world problem. Those of us who are lucky enough to live on the North Side have a plethora of choices. And people who live on the South and the West Side, many live in grocery desserts. So I really hope that if this purchase goes through, the parent company gives some thought to putting grocery stores into these grocery deserts, because you know, we can sit here and talk about this as a first world problem all we want. Well, people are literally not being able to buy fresh food and vegetables for themselves. And the second thing to remember is for anybody who is on food stamps, they cannot use call in or delivery, because I'm still allow for that. Yeah. So again, please keep in mind. This is a first world problem. 

Susie An: Thanks for that Virginia. Yeah. I mean, um as you mentioned earlier, I mean.... You know, we're talking about this and there are real problems in food deserts in the South and West side.

Ashok Selvam: Well, that's a... That's the reason a lot of hospitals in particular. They have opened up their parking lots on weekends across the country and host farmers markets because they help wellness as well. And there are, there's a lot of work, a lot of dedicated people right now working to bring farmers markets to these underserved neighborhoods. And it's also a wild card. We really haven't spoken about being open during the pandemic. Farmers markets after an initial setback trying to figure out well what's going on and before the vaccines they had, they've had a great business the last couple of years and uh, this move by uh, Mariano's Jewel is just there trying to battle back, you know, they're not necessarily, not necessarily going to bring those farmers into their stores. But you know, if they have an increased, uh, you know, presence, maybe a shopper will choose Mariano jewel over like the Logan square farmer's market.

Susie An: Yeah, for sure. And you know, um, one of those collars Bruce mentioned, um, the closing of all those other grocery stores. Um, and I'm also thinking of Dominick's back in 2013, remind us what happened there.

Ashok Selvam: Well, Dominick's, you know, just cease to exist. They were, they've been around for what was the decades, decades and it was always jewel and Dominick's, we were joking. They're like the tom and jerry of, of the circuit, you know, great rivals and uh, you know, when they closed, they had all these empty stores and it became kind of a bidding war between whole foods jewel Mariano to take over those spaces. And, you know, a lot of those stores on those underserved areas that we, you know, we're talking about. They went vacant.

Susie An: Yeah, yeah. I mean, does this give us, does Dominick's situation back in 2013 kind of give us any insight on what we might expect with this merger? Hard to say.

Ashok Selvam: You know, it's, it is hard because there wasn't a direct successor to Dominick's, you know, and, and here we know that, you know, Kroger Mariano's is going to come over and uh, you know, add a couple of their products, you know, we're gonna see like products that are redundant. The jewel like I was making a joke about that olive oil that you saw at Mariano's, that fancy Mariano, olive oil that you saw when they first opened and then Kroger came in and well we have supply chain in other parts of the country, we're just gonna bring our olive oil in because we don't want a competitor. So boom that you no longer have a venue to sell that olive oil that'll, that'll be lost. Maybe you'll see that on a smaller scale but it is, it's really, I don't know if the dominance is a direct parallel to this situation.

Susie An: Right. Well we've got another call. Revolution in Andersonville revolution

Caller: Hey, how are you doing?

Susie An: I'm doing well. What are your thoughts on this grocery merger?

Caller: Total freaking disaster Chicago because look, Kroger came in. I had not been to a Mariano since COVID and went there a couple of months ago, I've been to a few of them now, Kroger came in and just totally destroyed a great concept Mariano was fancy but it had competitive prices with jewel and it was, it was, it was a great place to shop now. The stores are dirty, the shopping cards don't work. The employees are angry. Look, I know first world problems, they don't even take apple pay. It is like it is like going back in time to a bit of a Hades hole there, You do not want Kroger to come to your town. Trust me, they totally ruined what Dave Mariano did with with a great concept and you know, he worked for Dominic, I mean they were in a sense of replacement for Dominic and an upgrade and I knew old man Dominic, I used to stock shelves when I was when I was a teenager and you know, yeah, they just destroyed that.

Susie An: Well thanks for that revolution. Not looking forward to that Kroger takeover. We've got Jodi and Edgewater who seems to think the opposite maybe. Hey Jodie.

Caller: Yeah, yeah, Crocker from Cincinnati, they seem to know what they're doing. We've seen the, lost that charm of local groceries now to feed the cattle from a big cattle er and at least Kroger knows what they're doing, They have decent products jewel to me uh being an outsider from Chicago and I live here now from Michigan jewels kind of stale. It doesn't really impress me. Just kind of their uh Mariano is very charming. My first one was in Bridgeport and archer and Ashland there, I was like, oh this is charming and sometimes whoever owns the place or runs the place just doesn't their employees and it shows um we can care less that some of these places a lot of these grocery stores are crisp, they're clean, the employees are motivated. So it's just about the motivation in fact, you know like who owns this place? Who cares, who owns this place, You know, we all work here, you just kinda gotta do your job well and that's hard to do in today's day and age, but I'm optimistic about Kroger coming to Chicago because they know how to feed the cattle and what do we need, we just need food, shelter, water, you know, Mariana's with the olive oil gotta, you know, options. But I do miss that mom and pop feel that some of us used to have in our neighborhoods and those days are gone to motivate people. So I'm optimistic about it.

Susie An: Thanks for that Jodi. Any reactions to, you know, these two opposing views here.

Brianna Wellen: I do think like what we were talking about with Mariano before, it did feel like this is my neighborhood grocery store even though it was part of a chain. Um, and I do think some people feel that way about their local jewel. I know that I do. Um and yeah, what Kroger coming in will kind of take away some of that personalization across the stores I think. Um and it does give whole foods a chance to sort of pounce and take over that more shopping experience as opposed to just like making it a chore. I think that might be something that we see more of, if we do have empty jewels or Mariano in the future.

Susie An: For sure. This is Reset. I'm Susie An, in for Sasha and Simon's and we're talking about a grocery store mega merger in the works and what it could mean for you Chicago area grocery shopper, Mariano's parent company. Kroger has agreed to purchase jewel, parent company Albertsons. So what do you think also, what grocery store do you shop at? And why join the conversation at 866-915-WBEZ. That's 866-915-WBEZ. Um so Mariano's as we know has been around for about 10 years. Um, but jewel has been open since 1899. So if the jewel brand were to go away, that would be a big loss for Chicago, right?

Ashok Selvam: Just gets replaced with someone else. Uh believe Bruce called in and he was, you know, does anyone remember sir to savor, Does everyone remember Butera Edmar. You know, there's a, there's just a graveyard of old grocery stores and you know, it's just, I'm sure whatever will replace it, we will, we will love it and Chicago Chicago and will embrace it and it'll make them their own, You know, it's those days of Alice and sam the butcher are gone. But you know, it's kind of nice once in a while at the grocery store for someone to actually smile at you and recognize that you've been been shopping there for a while or you know, those little touches are probably we forget about and then especially like a broken record during the pandemic, we seem to be appreciated a little bit more.

Susie An: Yeah, for sure. Um, and so we've got a comment from Katie on Facebook, who said these little shops that you're talking about are so expensive and all north side, um, care to respond. 

Ashok Selvam: She's right. She's 1000% right. You know, that's where the first real problem comes from. You know, you know, the, we talk about farm to table, which is a cliché in the restaurant world, but those type of, you know, organic goods, they're gonna be more expensive and uh, there's not so much, there's like definitely kind of a tone deafness sometimes within the community that they are expensive and not everyone can afford them.

Susie An: Yeah, that's right. Well, we've got a caller Allie from Carpentersville. Hey Allie.

Caller: Hey, how's it going?

Susie An: We're doing well. What's your thoughts?

Caller: Yeah. So when I first heard about this story, um, I was reminded of what Kroger did during the pandemic by laying off their employees. Um, and you know, it made me worry about such a large company having, um, such a hold over the supply chain of food and um, in, in our area of the state. So mike, main concern is, you know, will they be empowered to keep their prices reasonable or will they decide to continue to add inflation by, you know, 2030 40 50 cents over the next, uh, you know, once this merger occurs. So thinking about, you know, activity throughout the Chicagoland area, you know, if everything's more expensive, I feel like that would hurt, you know, everyone around us and then as well as all the workers at the unions at duel, I, I hope that they maintain their standing and the jewel by me, there have been people working there since, You know, for 15, 20 years.

Susie An: Yeah, people hold on to those jobs for sure, well, thanks for that Allie. Yeah, and you know, there are many promises that this merger will be better for all stakeholders, um, you know, administrative side to the everyday prices. But what do you think Brianna?

Brianna Wellen: Well, another thing that Kroger said is that they are go going to reinvest some of the money to keep those prices low and that they're reinvesting, I think they said a billion dollars into raising wages and benefits for employees. It would be great to trust that they're gonna keep those promises, but with grocery prices already going up, the layoffs that were just mentioned, I'm a little skeptical of how long they can keep that promise?

Susie An: I mean, you know, we've been talking about this and, and people who don't live in Chicago are like, why are you guys all up in arms about a grocery store, what is it about Chicago? That, that people really feel so strongly about their grocery stores.

Brianna Wellen: I do think Chicagoans just feel strongly about everything and because it is such a big food scene here and people know when they're eating at a restaurant, when they're cooking, where that food comes from, like where they can go get those ingredients. Um, I think it's part of just that sort of midwestern passion.

Ashok Selvam: grocery stores have become landmarks, especially in, you know, real estate development that those are the anchors. So you're saying, where am I going to meet someone? We often point to the grocery store because they have the huge signage and uh, you know, folks from stores and locations with bars, they are kind of become third places. Um, you know, uh, I have a buddy, I was telling Brianna before that he's a photographer, he lived in Ukrainian Village and he was just up in arms that with the gentrification, he turned to the Mariano's and uh, their bar and said this is the, this is like the dive bar, this is like what the gold star used to be and he did a whole photo exhibit based the people he met at the Mariano's bar. So it's just, you know, it just sticks with you like familiarity, you can, you know, it's, it's, it's really important. I do think Brianna is 100% right, you know, you know Chicago Chicagoans like to say Chicago style everything and we have Chicago style grocery store maybe.

Susie An: Yeah, well back to sort of like the nitty gritty business end of it. Um, Ashok how long should we expect this merger to take?

Ashok Selvam: Well I'm not sure of the regulatory process right now but they need to get, you know, we talked about a little bit about antitrust so that needs to go through. So uh like I I don't want to put any sort of estimation, because you know how the slow government goes but it's gonna take a while. It's not a guaranteed deal either that this is going to happen.

Susie An: So not guaranteed. But do you think it's likely the deal will get the government approval it needs.

Ashok Selvam: Who knows? Can you see these, can you see the heart of our our lawmakers? I cannot. I cannot. But yeah it's it's more likely and you know, do we really remember Amoco and BP, you know, so I think Jewel Osco, I mean old  Osco's are gone to right? With CVS, so maybe maybe that's where - we'll always have Jewel in our hearts.

Susie An: Well just to wrap it up quickly here Brianna, what do you think consumers want these days?

Brianna Wellen: I think especially through the pandemic, it's just convenience. Um you know we can say that we like all these specialty shops but people just want it to be easy to do their shopping.

Susie An: Yeah. Well said. We've been speaking with Brianna Wellen from the Take Out, and Ashok Selvam from Eater Chicago. Thanks so much for joining us and you know, do your groceries.

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